Confiscation (13)

Wed 27 Aug 08, 6:32 PM
sirguym
UK, 3 yrs
Just following up a point from an earlier thread. I am posting really to ensure I understand the implications, and this reply had left me puzzled:
[quote DarkLordDredd]
[quote sirguym] Somebody alleges I have illegal material. I get raided and though I have no interest in such stuff personally or in selling or otherwise publishing it, they find something that they can persuade a jury in comparatively sheltered Hereford to fall under these provisions, I am found guilty. I may then be fined and/or imprisoned, and lose all my books, magazines, computers, DVDs, CDs, etc. All true so far? [/quote]
The courts can only order the confiscation and destruction of any items that are found to be illegal. We have no chap who we dealt with who had a Ł5000 PC destroyed, but as the alleged images could have been erased completely he successfully claimed against I think it was Warwick Crown Court. All of the destroyed equipment was replaced in full. [/quote]
As far as I know in cases brought under the Obscene Publications Act, when they seize material: magazines, books, DVDs they sort it into three heaps:
1 The obviously harmless, eg Readers Digest, etc.
2 Those examples they are going to prosecute
3 The rest, i.e. anything erotic or racy through to clearly extreme, but not quite as bad as 2/ above
If they get a conviction, be it on only one count, or eg on the Post Office Act, which makes it illegal to send indecent material through the post, it is normal practise to burn everything in groups 2/ and 3/, sight unseen.
I had anticipated that they'd do the same, plus seizure of computers, etc. if they got a guilty verdict. I am surprised that they seem to have missed this particular trick.
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27 Aug 08, 6:43 PM
DarkLordDredd
UK(NG), 6 yrs

sirguym wrote:
Confiscation
Just following up a point from an earlier thread. I am posting really to ensure I understand the implications, and this reply had left me puzzled:
Somebody alleges I have illegal material. I get raided and though I have no interest in such stuff personally or in selling or otherwise publishing it, they find something that they can persuade a jury in comparatively sheltered Hereford to fall under these provisions, I am found guilty. I may then be fined and/or imprisoned, and lose all my books, magazines, computers, DVDs, CDs, etc. All true so far?

DarkLordDredd wrote:
The courts can only order the confiscation and destruction of any items that are found to be illegal. We have no chap who we dealt with who had a Ł5000 PC destroyed, but as the alleged images could have been erased completely he successfully claimed against I think it was Warwick Crown Court. All of the destroyed equipment was replaced in full.

sirguym wrote:
As far as I know in cases brought under the Obscene Publications Act, when they seize material: magazines, books, DVDs they sort it into three heaps:
1 The obviously harmless, eg Readers Digest, etc.
2 Those examples they are going to prosecute
3 The rest, i.e. anything erotic or racy through to clearly extreme, but not quite as bad as 2/ above
If they get a conviction, be it on only one count, or eg on the Post Office Act, which makes it illegal to send indecent material through the post, it is normal practise to burn everything in groups 2/ and 3/, sight unseen.
I had anticipated that they'd do the same, plus seizure of computers, etc. if they got a guilty verdict. I am surprised that they seem to have missed this particular trick.
Anything the police seize now which is not of evidential value I understand now has to be returned to whom it was seized from. Recently I did one of the solicitors who instruct m' learned friend a favour by collecting quite a considerable amount of crated papers, pc's and other devices from North End police station in Portsmouth.
The person involved was jailed on fraud charges but did have quite a collection of European porn mags, Bizarre Dwarves being the strangest mag I noticed on the inventory list that went onto 3 pages!
Edited 27 Aug 08, 6:51 PM by DarkLordDredd

27 Aug 08, 7:18 PM
sirguym
UK, 3 yrs

DarkLordDredd wrote:
Anything the police seize now which is not of evidential value I understand now has to be returned to whom it was seized from. Recently I did one of the solicitors who instruct m' learned friend a favour by collecting quite a considerable amount of crated papers, pc's and other devices from North End police station in Portsmouth.
The person involved was jailed on fraud charges but did have quite a collection of European porn mags, Bizarre Dwarves being the strangest mag I noticed on the inventory list that went onto 3 pages!
If that is the case, then it is hardly surprising the Obscene Publications Act is rarely invoked nowadays.
The fines and costs were generally just a couple of thousand pounds, the managers of sex shops being 'straw men' paid handsomely for taking the risk.
The real cost to the operators was losing tens or hundreds of thousand pounds worth of stock, because it was all on sale or return and if they hadn't got it to give back they had to pay for it.
It was crippling even if it was just held for a couple of years, charges were dropped or they were acquitted.
Then police knew this and used the law administratively: i.e. they'd raid, confiscate, then drop charges and return the stock when the company complied with what they required.
Which I'd never, ever, suggest involved a donation to the police benevolent fund ...
So it is good to hear that particular practise has changed, if it has really.
Academy Incorporated: turning fantasy into reality, The Academy Club, The Other Pony Club, Tawsingham Society, Miss Prim's Muir Academy, Muir Academy For Maids: fast friendly, helpful, discreet service, with integrity www.tawse.com guy@tawse.com PO Box 135, Hereford, HR2 7WL, UK +44(0)1432 343100 [pi

28 Aug 08, 4:17 PM
sirguym
UK, 3 yrs

Master_Craftsman wrote:

sirguym wrote:
Which I'd never, ever, suggest involved a donation to the police benevolent fund ...
So it is good to hear that particular practise has changed, if it has really.
How will the police widows and orphans cope now?

I think they'll manage, I wouldn't mind a police pension myself, at all ...
Academy Incorporated: turning fantasy into reality, The Academy Club, The Other Pony Club, Tawsingham Society, Miss Prim's Muir Academy, Muir Academy For Maids: fast friendly, helpful, discreet service, with integrity www.tawse.com guy@tawse.com PO Box 135, Hereford, HR2 7WL, UK +44(0)1432 343100 [pi

28 Aug 08, 7:26 PM
lisal
5 yrs
Master_Craftsman wrote:
To get this discussion back on track: I know of someone whose computers were seized as "evidence" at the time of the "Ipswich strangler" murders and who, as far as I know, still hasn't received them back.
Any chance of some context/links on this please?

28 Aug 08, 7:43 PM
redcat
UK(PE), 5 yrs
if its general context you need this may do it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ipswich_murder...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/objectification_in...
To be without some of the things you want is an indispensable part of happiness. – Bertrand Russel.

28 Aug 08, 7:53 PM
lisal
5 yrs
redcat wrote:
if its general context you need this may do it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ipswich_murder...
Thanks redcat. I do know about these awful murders
My apologies for not being clearer. I was interested in the context/links to the holding of the computers mentioned by mastercraftsman

Edited 28 Aug 08, 8:07 PM by lisal

28 Aug 08, 7:55 PM
sirguym
UK, 3 yrs

Master_Craftsman wrote:
To get this discussion back on track: I know of someone whose computers were seized as "evidence" at the time of the "Ipswich strangler" murders and who, as far as I know, still hasn't received them back.
I gather you actually have to ask, they will not volunteer: and sometimes you have to be very persistent.
I understand returning property is not something policemen think is high priority, especially if they think you're guilty of something or other, even if they can't pin it on you ...
Academy Incorporated: turning fantasy into reality, The Academy Club, The Other Pony Club, Tawsingham Society, Miss Prim's Muir Academy, Muir Academy For Maids: fast friendly, helpful, discreet service, with integrity www.tawse.com guy@tawse.com PO Box 135, Hereford, HR2 7WL, UK +44(0)1432 343100 [pi

28 Aug 08, 8:06 PM
DarkLordDredd
UK(NG), 6 yrs

Master_Craftsman wrote:

sirguym wrote:

Master_Craftsman wrote:

sirguym wrote:
Which I'd never, ever, suggest involved a donation to the police benevolent fund ...
So it is good to hear that particular practise has changed, if it has really.
How will the police widows and orphans cope now?

I think they'll manage
From the sale of tickets when they next hold a policeman's ball?
To get this discussion back on track: I know of someone whose computers were seized as "evidence" at the time of the "Ipswich strangler" murders and who, as far as I know, still hasn't received them back.
The police are allegedly supposed to inform you the moment any seized evidence has been scrutinised and declared not of evidential value. In practice this rarely happens unless you have a solicitor who is on the case and apt to harrasing the investigating officers.
Hampshire Constabulary gave the solicitors client 28 days to reclaim his property, either himself (inside so no chance) or a legally nominated representative. I turned up with a letter of authority and a large people carrier and the feds were surprisingly friendly and helpful. Looking at the mountain of stuff they'd seized it would have kept the stations coal fired boiler in fuel for a couple of years!

29 Aug 08, 8:47 AM
lisal
5 yrs Cheers
Not the world's nicest individual is he?
I did a google on his name and found things alleging that he'd lied about his wife's illness and that he'd admitted having child porn (no idea if any of it is true)
Still, whoever he is, he should be getting his kit back


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