When does informed Consent become Informed Abuse? (63)

Female deer have a clitoris? Gosh.

Easy? You men have no idea what we're dealing with down there. Teeth placement,and jaw stress, and suction, and gag reflex, and all the while bobbing up and down, moaning and trying to breathe through our noses. Easy? Honey,they don't call it a job for nothing!
Honk your horn if you like violent porn

When I am in a play space shared with others I give not a fig what they do. Each to their own. Safety or even morality, as defined by the spaces owner is the DMs problem not mine.

I had an intense and personal scene ruined by a party of idiots standing 6 ft away, loudly discussing the merits of various clubs they had visited recently and what they had worn to do so, whilst on the other side of me a sub with obviously extraordinarily sensitive nipples screamed as if being skinned alive.

Yes I asked the chatters to quieten down or go, whilst considering suggesting to the dom on the other side he use his socks on her but by then the mood was shot. All this in what started as a quiet darkened area and ended up feeling like Piccadilly Circus at chucking out time.

As I said earlier, for those of us who rarely get any play every opportunity is very valuable. A little bit of consideration is all I'm asking. If your sharing a play space please try and consider if your actions are negatively impacting on other users.

ie fit her with a gag next time

P
"This is all about fun, self exploration and never has to be any more serious than you want it to be." demolition red

This debate is somewhat hypothetical as no-one posting here actually saw this happening.

Club Subversion Crossing the Rubicon FleursduMal bobette's MySpace Beginners Guide to BDSM[/ur

I think the idea was to get at the wider, more general issues, and I don't think any of them are as cut and dried, black and white as some are making out.

There's the points Platinum makes - and I know exactly what he means - people not playing but talking toot too loud too close messing up the mood (fuggin' annoys me too, that), I have no problem with speaking my mind on that, but then the scene is often half trashed anyway. Or other folks playing and being so loud they get on other people's tits. The second is trickier because asking them to hush up does mean interfering with their scene, even though they are already interfering with yours.

Then there's the one about seeing something, maybe not your kink, but where you are genuinely worried and perhaps the sub appears really zonko, maybe pissed as well, and you have a genuine concern about serious damage. Trickier still, that one, and I guess you can only fetch the DMs for their opinion. There's many things that look dangerous but aren't, if done well.

Then there's the one where you happen to be an expert in the kink concerned and you see something you know for sure is either going to lead to an accident or is just a damned silly, dangerous thing to do. Even then it's hard to take an absolute position - whether to intervene or not, but I'd find it hard to live with the knowledge that I could have stopped a major injury happening and done nowt.

Now go and tell an egg how to suck granny.

Edited 23 Jul 08, 6:56 PM by Jahc99

Informed and consensual are slippery concepts, difficult to ascertain even for the players themselves sometimes, and very tricky for observers. How much information, and taken in by whom, in what state, is enough? When does a sub reach a mental state where they are no longer able to give consent?

My suggestion is, that if you have any concerns about what you are seeing in a club, you speak to the DM's about it, as it is happening. They are there to monitor and make decisions about such things. They may already know more about the players and the informed and consensual state of the play than you. If not, they can find out. Taking action at the time, through the DM's, is the responsible thing to do.

However discussing scenes second or third hand is often not helpful as so much information is not available under these circumstances.

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Edited 23 Jul 08, 5:22 PM by The_Counsellor

If it is consensual who's to say it shouldn't be done if both parties want it?

As a Domme I would never do any damage to a sub of mine, even if they wanted me to.

"Truth is stranger than fiction."
"It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you are not."
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." Albert Einstein

The most famous example, and the one which lead to the research into the "Bystander Effect" is of course Kitty Genovese;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

But how many of us walk past the homeless on the streets as part of our daily lunch break crowds, but just ignore them as "someone else's responsibility"? How many of us have seen drunken yobs beating up their girlfriend on the streets and thought "Leave it to the police..."? Yes, we all (including myself) KNOW we simply don't do enough, aren't as brave as we'd like to be, and the world in general isn't as kind as it should be... but apparently all of this changes when we get into a club or a scene? Is every single act we now see is an act of love? And because of achieving this utopia, that it's now ok to walk past them all without any guilt about not having another thought at all about what we just saw?

I'm not sure yet I have any answers as to whether I'd be able to spot, much less define how I should react to a situation that I thought was beyond consent myself... but surely we should always be making sure we are always asking that question of ourselves?

bons_no_angel wrote: However, come near me with even the lightest of sandpaper (or its match - metaphorically or otherwise - and you would be lucky to escape with your balls )

That's why when getting to know someone it's good to exchange lists of what you do and don't like. (Quickly hides the angle-grinder)

I remember seeing one of those used in a C4 documentary years ago

The first rule of Brat Club, we don't talk about Brat Club...
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