Common sense Policing - A glimmer of hope? (7)

This post is on the BDSM Activism web board.

Sat 31 May 08, 12:57 PM
grahamm
UK, 8 yrs
Y!

Four police forces are to abandon government targets and allow officers to decide whether to make arrests.
The "common-sense approach" being tried by the Surrey, Leicestershire, West Midlands and Staffordshire forces has been welcomed by the Home Office.
Government targets have been criticised for encouraging officers to focus on minor rather than serious crimes.
Surrey police chief Mark Rowley said the public did not want officers to be "compelled" to always arrest people.
BBC Article
Now ok, this may not be exactly aimed at the DPA or Spanner-like cases, but this might at least go some way to reduce the chances of those of us who have been vocally protesting against the DPA that we could be the "low hanging fruit" which gets picked off to try to validate this law.
Admittedly I'm not exactly going to relax and say "oh, well, it's ok then", but maybe it suggests that The Powers That Be have finally realised that "target based" Policing is not the way to go...

31 May 08, 6:22 PM
Dimswitch3
UK, 2 yrs Great stuff & and not just from a DPA perspective. Me thinks both the cops & the rest of us would rather they concentrate on "real crime" such as burglary rather than statistic improvers such as school playground fights or students with a bit of dope..

31 May 08, 11:15 PM
Grissom
UK(PR), 20 mths

PhoenixBuddha70 wrote:
Well, yes...but Zero tolerance works. People are less likely to do the bad stuff when the small stuff is well enforced.
Not so sure on that - being done for something can alienate a person somewhat - possibly through people not wanting to associate with a criminal.
And if it is for something little it isn't too hard to imagine them being ridiculed for it.Bravado being what it is they may then simply set out to prove themselves...
Also the smaller events are clogging up courts with the time, delaying dealing with the larger crimes, the end result seeming to be cutting sentencing as there is less money to go towards building and supporting prisons
Better to be a diamond with a flaw then a pebble with none
Assumption is the mother of all cockups
"There are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on..." Stairway to Heaven

31 May 08, 11:20 PM
grahamm
UK, 8 yrs
Y!

PhoenixBuddha70 wrote:
Well, yes...but Zero tolerance works. People are less likely to do the bad stuff when the small stuff is well enforced.
Umm, no, Zero Tolerance doesn't work, it just *appears* to (and can be spun that way by politicians).
The claims were that eg in New York, it worked, but those pointing to its "success" didn't comment that there were similar declines in crime in other (non-zero tolerance) US cities, nor that the reduction may well also have been the effect of urban regeneration schemes which also reduce crime.
When people see what it actually involves, eg in New York where Police were accused of heavy handedness and racial harassment, they realise it's not such a good thing.

1 Jun 08, 4:35 AM
janInGlos
UK(GL), 9 mths
Y!
Yes sadly it can be spun to easily, take over here for example they just claimed that assult with weapons has dropped since the police commisioner took over in the last 6 months, the first thing he did was downgrade any attacks where the victum never saw the weapon to assults with no weapons and low and behold the number of assults with weapons dropped.
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2 Jun 08, 6:31 PM
The_Hogfather
UK(NG), 6 yrs
Y!

grahamm wrote:

PhoenixBuddha70 wrote:
Well, yes...but Zero tolerance works. People are less likely to do the bad stuff when the small stuff is well enforced.
Umm, no, Zero Tolerance doesn't work, it just *appears* to (and can be spun that way by politicians).
The claims were that eg in New York, it worked, but those pointing to its "success" didn't comment that there were similar declines in crime in other (non-zero tolerance) US cities, nor that the reduction may well also have been the effect of urban regeneration schemes which also reduce crime.
When people see what it actually involves, eg in New York where Police were accused of heavy handedness and racial harassment, they realise it's not such a good thing.

I'll have to disagree with Zero Tolerance not working, that policy sorted out New York's crime spell under Rudolph Guliani, but unlike the UK it was targetted at the right people, and not all and sundry as we seem to get in the UK. West Yorkshire Police have been using Zero Tolerance on certain people on problem estates and it has seena major drop in anti-social behaviour and general criminality. If its targetted it works.

3 Jun 08, 12:41 AM
grahamm
UK, 8 yrs
Y!
I don't want to get into a discussion on Zero Tolerance because it's not what this thread is about, I'd simply point out that those people who were stopped for being "suspiciously black" etc might disagree as to how well it was targetted.

3 Jun 08, 10:50 PM
The_Hogfather
UK(NG), 6 yrs
Y!

grahamm wrote:
I don't want to get into a discussion on Zero Tolerance because it's not what this thread is about, I'd simply point out that those people who were stopped for being "suspiciously black" etc might disagree as to how well it was targetted.
Pre McPherson cases of street robberies, assaults and the carrying of weapons was dropping, post McPherson the average Plod fears being unfairly called a rasict so stop and search drops by 90%. Then the masses start screaming as the combined crimes shooyt up by 80%! Stop and search restarted with the blessing of the CRE even! Even Ken Livingston stated quite clearly after years of complaining that the Met had got it right and McPherson was a fool.
Trouble with Lord McPherson is like many, he had an agenda and was the wrong person to head the Stephen Lawrence enquiry. There is racism in every organisation, as the there homo-phobia, religious prejudice.
A lot of regular beat coppers knew exactly who was up to what, it was a just a matter of catching them. If there is one known criminal amongst a gang of 10 guys, and these guys know what there friend is like if they get searched with him tough! If I assosicated with known criminals in my private life then I would expect to pop-up on the police radar, its a fact of life.
Now if the target group who committed the majoriyty of these crimes had been young white youths no-one would've complained. Double-standards again.
The good news locally having spoken to the local plods is that the CJIA 2008 will make another good supply of "emergency bog paper" to quote my contact. It seems like many officers, they ahve lost interest in chasing stupid government targets and they are more interested in catching real criminals. Thats not to say they won't investigate if they get a report, but it seems they won't be going out there hunting.


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