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IC : Web boards : BDSM Activism : "A Few Possible Lessons from the Samurai Sword Ban"
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A Few Possible Lessons from the Samurai Sword Ban (25)

This post is on the BDSM Activism web board.

Tue 27 May 08, 9:27 PM
Fourfiveone
UK, 3 yrs
Recently, I've been paying quite a bit of attention to how the recently enacted sword ban has affected people, and I think it might give some insights into how the police and government might handle the extreme porn laws.

First, a bit of background.

The government's stated intention was to keep Samurai swords out of the hands of people who might use them in violent attacks. Opposition to an outright ban was given by four main groups of people:

1)Martial artists who use swords.

2)Collectors of historical swords (both European and Japanese swords as the act was gearing up to define single edged curved blades, regardless of origin).

3)Collectors of modern high quality swords.

4)Re-enactment enthusiasts (again because of the law not specifically targetting Japanese swords).

My own interest came from being a practitioner of Iaido, an art that involves performing kata that consist of drawing a sword, making several cuts (against empty air) performing an action that would shake blood from the blade then re-sheathing it.

Now, in Iaido, we use three types of sword:

1)Bokken, wooden swords.

2)Iaito, unsharpened alloy swords that wouldn't hold an edge. They can still give your hand a little cut if you poke it with the tip, and they look like real swords.

3)Shinken, real sharp swords used by people at very high grades who are required to prove that they can perform the kata safely with a sharp sword.

So, there was a lot of discussion between Iaido practioners and the government (probably helped by the fact that a few reasonably high ranking police officers do Iaido), and we were reassured that the law wouldn't affect us, only people who were buying cheap swords to commit crimes with.

When the law was enacted it only banned the sale, making or importing of swords and had the following exemptions:

1) The weapon in question was made in Japan before 1954 or was made in Japan at any other time according to traditional methods of forging swords.

2) The sale of the weapon was for the purpose only of making the weapon available for the purposes of the organisation and holding of a permitted activity for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of such an activity.

The second exemption defined permitted activities as sporting activities that use swords and re-enactments.

So, first of all the law hadn't been brilliantly thought out. While it allowed any swords for martial arts or re-enactment, it didn't allow non-Japanese swords for collectors. It also put the bizarre situation together for collectors where, if somebody British learned to be a top sword-smith and made collector quality swords in Britain, they'd be illegal for collectors to buy, whereas if the same person made them in Japan then they wouldn't be.

Then, what has happened so far with enforcement has been interesting to say the least.

A number of UK importers won't sell any swords at present, as they're unable to get any sort of guidance on how they should determine if somebody is buying a sword for a legitimate reason. Most swords that they sell aren't genuine traditionally made Japanese ones, they're Iaito, some made in Japan, some made outside but all non-traditionally made, so they aren't legal to sell to collectors.

The police, when asked, are happy that importing and buying Iaito is totally legal if you're a member of a recognised Iaido club. HMRC don't really seem to want to talk to anyone, and several people importing swords for personal use have had them confiscated by customs.

When they've contacted customs to inform them of the exemption the response has been that customs have been told to seize all Samurai swords. When the exemption is pointed out, they inform the person in question that they'll have to provide proof of their club membership, but also mention that they don't yet have any guidance on what they're allowed to accept as proof.

So far I know a few people who have provided membership documents for the British Kendo Association and proof of insurance for Iaido, and as of yet none of them have had the sword released, although equally none of them have been told that the proof won't be accepted.

Then, there's also been quite a few police officers helpfully providing completely incorrect information to people who they know who do Iaido.

One I heard recently was the advice that now you're only allowed to carry an Iaito to and from training in a locked box, rather than a carry bag. The law on carrying them hasn't changed. They're an offensive weapon and you need a good reason to carry one, plus its likely to be a public order offence to not have it covered.

Another one that's been offered by helpful police officers is that the only Shinken that will be allowed are expensive Japanese ones. Again that's not true. The high quality Japanese sword exemption is for anyone, martial artists are exempt and can buy any sword to do martial arts at an insured club.

--------------------------------------------------- -----

So, what does this suggest for the extreme porn laws?

1) Don't necessarily expect the government to have thought out any clear guidance ahead of time.

2) Expect individual police officers to give out incorrect information. They're probably not doing it maliciously, but some try to appear knowledgable about laws they haven't been properly briefed on, and some will put their own opinions on what is a good idea across as being the law.

3) Don't expect different parts of law enforcement to agree with each other. Don't be surprised if the police officers who raid somebody are looking for one standard of image, then the IT staff who examine the PC label images as illegal on a different standard, before finally the CPS make a decision on whether to prosecute on a third standard.

4) Expect the fear of the law to be used, at least temporarily, to stop people doing things that the letter of the law allows them to do.

27 May 08, 9:59 PM
Vanilla_Spectator
8 mths
Fourfiveone wrote:
A Few Possible Lessons from the Samurai Sword Ban

Recently, I've been paying quite a bit of attention to how the recently enacted sword ban has affected people, and I think it might give some insights into how the police and government might handle the extreme porn laws.

First, a bit of background.

The government's stated intention was to keep Samurai swords out of the hands of people who might use them in violent attacks. ...

Thanks for this wonderful post. It really does look like the sword ban is cut from much the same cloth as the "extreme porn" law. I wonder if there's a list, somewhere, of all the laws like this? The ban on handguns is an obvious one for the list, of course.

I also wonder if there might be the possibility of groups affected by these similar laws coming together for collective action of some sort (though do gun and sword campaigners really want to associate with "kinky perverts"?).

So, what does this suggest for the extreme porn laws?

1) Don't necessarily expect the government to have thought out any clear guidance ahead of time.

Might this be exploitable? What you've written about confused guidance seems to fit very nicely with the campaign to seek guidance as a way of demonstrating the vagueness of the law.

2) Expect individual police officers to give out incorrect information. They're probably not doing it maliciously, but some try to appear knowledgable about laws they haven't been properly briefed on, and some will put their own opinions on what is a good idea across as being the law.

Handy! That'll be music to Degenerate's ears, I suspect.

3) Don't expect different parts of law enforcement to agree with each other. Don't be surprised if the police officers who raid somebody are looking for one standard of image, then the IT staff who examine the PC label images as illegal on a different standard, before finally the CPS make a decision on whether to prosecute on a third standard.

How's someone supposed to adequately defend themselves? Anyway, sounds like it could end up being evidence of lack of clarity of the law. ECHR/HRA?

4) Expect the fear of the law to be used, at least temporarily, to stop people doing things that the letter of the law allows them to do.

:-(

27 May 08, 10:49 PM
FaerieCatcher
UK(BN), 2 yrs

Vanilla_Spectator wrote:
I also wonder if there might be the possibility of groups affected by these similar laws coming together for collective action of some sort (though do gun and sword campaigners really want to associate with "kinky perverts"?).

I would hope there would be a lot of overlap between different groups who have had their freedoms taken away by consecutive governments. Not too long ago, I had a thread here wondering if the kinksters would support the psychonauts when shrooms were outlawed. Had some good discussions but no real tangible support came out of it that I noticed... Still, it raises awareness and this can only be a good thing :)

FaerieCatcher

27 May 08, 11:02 PM
Vanilla_Spectator
8 mths
FaerieCatcher wrote:
I would hope there would be a lot of overlap between different groups who have had their freedoms taken away by consecutive governments. Not too long ago, I had a thread here wondering if the kinksters would support the psychonauts when shrooms were outlawed. Had some good discussions but no real tangible support came out of it that I noticed... Still, it raises awareness and this can only be a good thing :)

Getting these various groups together would be a wonderful thing - but it certainly seems like a difficult task! Perhaps there are people in various other groups, communities, etc, thinking similar thoughts?

27 May 08, 11:15 PM
FaerieCatcher
UK(BN), 2 yrs

Vanilla_Spectator wrote:
FaerieCatcher wrote:
I would hope there would be a lot of overlap between different groups who have had their freedoms taken away by consecutive governments. Not too long ago, I had a thread here wondering if the kinksters would support the psychonauts when shrooms were outlawed. Had some good discussions but no real tangible support came out of it that I noticed... Still, it raises awareness and this can only be a good thing :)

Getting these various groups together would be a wonderful thing

yes it absolutely would. any ideas how??? If all libertarians and people in search of political freedom supported each other's campaigns, it could be a really wonderful thing.

Vanilla_Spectator wrote:
- but it certainly seems like a difficult task!

yeah, i agree with that too, sadly... but if you have any ideas how the BDSM community can support other campaigns in exchange for mutual exchange of energy, then that would be ace.

Vanilla_Spectator wrote:
Perhaps there are people in various other groups, communities, etc, thinking similar thoughts?

i'm sure there are... Social freedoms generally slip away fairly slowly and the latest freedom lost is always only going to affect a small number of people. But if there was some way to share campaigning skills and energy, then it's worth pursuing...

FaerieCatcher

27 May 08, 11:28 PM
urchin
UK, 21 mths
support for the campaigns of others is a fine idea, however the likelihood is that people will be opposed to some, if not all, of the aims that those other groups!

the swords, the shrooms, the porn, the hunting act: all seen by those defending as civil liberties issues - but its doubtful that many would support all 4 causes

The Good Lord gave me eyelashes for a reason

28 May 08, 12:49 PM
paddbear
UK, 4 yrs
Y!*
FaerieCatcher wrote:
... but if you have any ideas how the BDSM community can support other campaigns in exchange for mutual exchange of energy, then that would be ace.

Well - there are general human rights organizations such as Liberty (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/). I've got no idea what Liberty's position on the CJIA is, however.

Frank

"the more impediments to legislation the better." -- Robert A. Heinlein

28 May 08, 1:50 PM
Vanilla_Spectator
8 mths
paddbear wrote:
Well - there are general human rights organizations such as Liberty (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/). I've got no idea what Liberty's position on the CJIA is, however.

According to Backlash, Liberty opposed the CJIA when it was still a Bill.

28 May 08, 4:17 PM
Vanilla_Spectator
8 mths
Auda_abu_Tayi wrote:
They *may* all be persuaded to support legal protection in demanding new legislation in the form of a "Civil Liberties Bill".

Do the Conservatives still intend to repeal the Human Rights Act and replace it with a Bill of Rights? While I think it's basically a pointless exercise just for show (the ECHR will still bind the UK just as much), it might be an opportunity to improve matters. Then again, it might just make things worse.

28 May 08, 4:27 PM
whisperkit
UK, 2 yrs
Auda_abu_Tayi wrote:

All new legislation designed to protect the public must only be used where there is *proof* that activity directly causes harm.

This should be carved in stone, I swear. It would end so much of the bullshit that's thrown around.

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