Posted by lucky_1 on Fri 22 Feb 08, 12:41 PM to lucky_1's blog.
When is a submissive a bottom and when is a bottom a submissive? Can you be both or is it exclusive? How easy is it to categorise?
I started off looking to make the delineation easier, at least for me but it turned into a bit of a task!
It's one that I have revisited a few times because sometimes it is not very easy to use and ascribe the labels accurately. It is one area where the overlaps between the two seem, at times, to be very grey indeed. Some people seem to have no problem at all with the definitions and how they apply them. Sometimes it is not so easy.
I read recently where someone was extremely sure that they were NOT a bottom but were definitely a submissive because when they did play they FELT submissive. Does that alone make you a submissive? It is certainly an emotive subject.
Why do we almost never see someone call themselves a bottom?
There does seem to be a hierarchal system in place with our labels here. If you took a look at the distribution of (especially) submissive females how many would you find ascribing the label “bottom” to themselves? The majority will go for “submissive” and a smaller number for “slave” Yet I have only ever encountered one person who described herself as a masochist and bottom.
When I look at the language and the behaviour of a cross section of the folks who regularly use this site I would make a guess (scientific this is! Sticks finger in the air) that I could identify about 20% of people who consider themselves submissive but that I would personally consider to be bottoms. (And they may be blooming good ones too) but I would definitely categorise them as bottoms.
So I looked up various dictionary definitions to see if it made it any clearer.
Bottom In BDSM, bottom means: • a submissive partner in sexual play (such as in being flogged, tied, humiliated, or made to serve) • a partner who enjoys submission on a temporary, limited basis • a partner who receives stimulation from another Many distinguish top/bottom from dominant/submissive by seeing top/bottom as an expression of physical power, while dominant/submissive is an expression of psychological power. In many cases, the dominant/submissive relationship involves the dominant party psychologically tearing down and denigrating the submissive with their consent. bottom- A term used for most that "play" in the submissive role. Gives up control but only for the play time.
Top-A term used for most that "play" in the Dom/me role. The one that controls things but only for the play time.
Submissive. A submissive (or "sub") is one who enjoys having any of a variety of BDSM practices performed upon them by a dominant; or one who holds a submissive position within a relationship based upon dominance and submission (D/s). This enjoyment can spring from a simple desire for submission or an enjoyment of the interplay of wills involved in such a scenario. In BDSM, "a" submissive refers to the person who takes on the submissive role for the duration of a scene or is a submissive partner within a power exchange relationship. They are not necessarily submissive generally. This term can be associated with being on the receiving end of bondage, discipline or sadism but need not necessarily be any of these. The term submissive as a noun is mostly synonymous with sub but some people use it more widely to denote anyone disposed to be submissive and would therefore say that a submissive might be a bottom, a sub or a slave.
Ok, Got that. Any clearer now?
Thought not!
It looks like there are two versions of the word “submissive” One that encompasses “Bottom” “sub” and “slave” but surely “Sub” is an abbreviation of “submissive”? So it is used twice in one sentence to describe two different things. Confusing isn't it?
So I went off to read some books to see if that made it any clearer. Screw the Roses is one of my all time favourites and usually manages to come up with something concise. “Bottom- someone who submits to bondage, training, role play, CP etc but who is not necessarily emotionally committed to his/her Dominant/Top”
So that seems to be the consensus.
A bottom is happy to give up control to a Top for the duration of a scene. A submissive has an emotional commitment to his/her Dominant and the control is likely to extend into areas outwith that particular scene. But bottoms, submissives and slaves are all sub groups of the term submissive.
So after all that reading I came to the conclusion that if you are a bottom then you may still be a submissive but you cannot claim not to be a bottom.
There!
That was simple wasn't it? 
And no I'm not going to even attempt to do slave vs sub, so there! 
Edited Fri 22 Feb 08, 12:46 PM by lucky_1
| 22 Feb 08, 1:25 PM dementia_von_gurth UK(DA), 4 yrs   |
my own personal view on this is that it doesn't matter .. all that is important is how what a person does makes them feel ... if it makes them a switchsubmasosadist and puts a smile on their face then so be it ... labels, tags, jargon and a multitude of generally confusing definitions of everything that could be done to us or possibly done to another human being only serve to confuse and complicate matters .... just do it .. who cares how that may define us in someone elses eyes ! save the cheerleader save the world ..... Hiro Nakamura | |
| 22 Feb 08, 1:26 PM steve1966 6 yrs |
My brain hurts! I'm even more confused about what I am than I was before I read your blog! Maybe I'm a subottom or a botmissive? Time for more coffee me thinks! tasha | |
| 22 Feb 08, 2:15 PM lucky_1 7 yrs |
Don't have any coffee! It makes you write blogs like this! I'm absolutely fine with my own place in life, I'm not stressed about it one bit and neither should anyone else. I had a look at this from a comment about people saying they were not bottoms and a discussion I had with a certain distinguished gent about the limiting use of labels. Personally I think labels only ever give a flavour, a hint in the right direction, it is up to the individuals to work out what makes them happy. But I still think it is interesting that virtually nobody ever labels themselves a bottom, especially a submissive bottom lol. I'm in my own world. It's Ok, they know me here. Edited 22 Feb 08, 2:18 PM by lucky_1 | |
| 22 Feb 08, 2:58 PM hunny_Beez 7 yrs |
And then you bring in them strange people the switches and that just confuses everything you though you had sorted out. you gotta love a switch. hunnyB BDSM themed Valentine Card to print out for free http://www.dcsulture.com | |
| 22 Feb 08, 3:04 PM dementia_von_gurth UK(DA), 4 yrs |
don't be starting on switches now .... we are the chosen ones ! save the cheerleader save the world ..... Hiro Nakamura | |
| 22 Feb 08, 3:12 PM lucky_1 7 yrs |
Oh I do darling, I really do
I'm in my own world. It's Ok, they know me here. | |
| 22 Feb 08, 3:24 PM maihri UK, 8 yrs |
Maihri | |
| 22 Feb 08, 4:05 PM MisterBear UK(WA), 8 yrs  |
Oh I knew all that already (but then I know everything), but it still doesn't help me figure out what the hell I am and what my place in the universe is. The Babylon project was our last best hope for peace. It failed. | |
| 22 Feb 08, 4:28 PM just_tope 6 yrs |
Now can you do some investigation into tops and Dom's? And if the submissive thinks they have a Dom but the Dom is actually a top does that make the submissive a bottom? Or if a submissive isn't fully controlled by the Dom, does that mean the Dom's a top or the sub is a bottom? <puts kettle on> Everybody out of the gene pool, NOW! | |
| 22 Feb 08, 4:43 PM lucky_1 7 yrs |
Better make it a large coffee tope. We could be some time.........................
Oh and btw, if the submissive is not fully controlled by the Dom it makes her human lol. That one is easy
I'm in my own world. It's Ok, they know me here. |
