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| 28 Jul 07, 2:15 PM shit_sub UK(W), 5 yrs  |
self control does not equate to law abiding. the one is about personal rules applied internally the other about societies rules applied externally. an anarchist with a will of iron is more likely, not less, to break societies code of conduct. fear does not work as a tool of control, precisely because it has to be maintained constantly. and what is more, like an addiction, ever greater degrees of fear must be generated in order to maintain a given level of subjugation.
actually i think this makes a pretty good case for a taoist approach rather than confucianist. it seems to me the warden was making the point that neither the ritualism of prison life, nor the threat of punishment for bad behaviour were sufficient to ensure the co-operation of inmates. but that by giving those inmates something of value to them, by a process of 'emptying hearts and filling bellies... weakening ambition and strenghtening bones', the warden could ensure that controlling the inmates was a self regulating bargain that satisfied everyone concerned and required minimal extra input from himself, or that everything settled into a 'natural order', if you like. so... as far as i understand it (and i'm still learning) a taoist would say that to achieve control, the best approach would be to give a sub what (s)he needs - and if that is regular physical domination then so be it. but punishment is not necessary to control, it serves only as an answer to serious transgressions against the natural order and should be applied sparingly and calmly.
~taboo~organ~somebody's nutter~for what its worth~compass Edited 28 Jul 07, 3:05 PM by shit_sub | ||
| 28 Jul 07, 2:20 PM Bear0two UK, 5 yrs  |
A leader, a master and a ruler are very different things. Each has their own aspect. Leadership alone requires exemplary actions to generate and foster respect. Other qualities are being seen to be decisive and fair and to take account of the opinion of all and make sure the reasons for a decision are understood and accepted by ALL. Respect applies across the first 2. A master can just say 'because I say so'. Plenty on here do that all the time. Others of us have a slightly different take. Ruling is simple..it can be dictatorial and successful although maybe not happy without good aspects of the first two. Bear. The Heart is mad, and the Heart is the ground I call you to walk on. - Adi Da Samraj | ||
| 28 Jul 07, 2:21 PM x_flaire_x UK(OX), 10 yrs |
And he is all those things to me. f x I solemnly swear I'm up to no good. | ||
| 30 Jul 07, 12:51 AM Romola UK, 7 yrs |
Oh, oh, an ACO thread! To be honest, all the D/s relevancy in the book and the film are related to the subjects and the reader/viewer, not to the protagonist. Alex is a sadist with no empathy, who finds himself mechanically disabled from acting on his orientation. None of the outer inflicted interventions cure him of his inclinations and the ludovico technique only amends his behaviour in the short term. The last chapter, memtioned above, shows him wilfully amending his own behaviour and authentically embracing a different approach, from a genuinely felt will to do so. Human self-ownership is what allows it. Clearly, it's in your interest not to annoy other users of IC by felching the wanking barfs or weblogs with ads. | ||
| 30 Jan 10, 5:22 PM littlestar39 UK(RG), 6 yrs |
It depends very much what these rituals and roles actually were. If these ritual and roles involved binding womens feet so that they were bent back on themselves and permanently bleeding and crippled or an enforced role of a geisha then it is more enforcing horrific persistant agony. That isnt exactly inspiring and harmonious way to structure a society. As he talks about guiding without fear maybe he wasnt commenting on that, but well As I havent actually read any Confucious I cant comment, really as he doesnt describe the roles or rituals. Does he actually say what rituals and roles he was referring to? I would prefer taking hallucinatory substances and herbs and doing that rite of passage thing myself of shamans because it sounds more fun. I prefer the Celtic Pagan Christian roles of being merry and kind and generally love thy neighbour unless hes a murdering barstard child rapist in which beat the shit out of him, and break both his legs. |
