Posted by felis_intorqueo on Wed 30 May 07, 12:56 PM to felis_intorqueo's blog.
I love protocol. Or rather, I love the idea of protocol. The problem I always find when trying to use it is that words have too much power and are too easily misconstrued. There aren't any concrete guidelines for what is and isn't acceptable. Found a potentially adaptable solution, though...
The Japanese language has an honorific system made of suffixes. I think it's great because it allows people to identify themselves by their relationships with others. One does not confer honorifics on oneself but become part of a web where your position is defined by those you know.
Here is a list of honorifics, closest English equivalents and their main usages:
San – People think this is the equivalent of Mr. or Mrs., but that's not quite the case. San can also be used to refer to animals, especially by children. It's genderless and used when speaking to, or about, someone your own age and status.
Sama – Used when talking to, or about, someone of higher status than you, either professionally or in terms of age. Like an older sister or a company boss.
Dono/Kyou – Lord/Lady. Not used much anymore, except in very formal business meetings.
Chan – Suffix used for females younger than you, or friends your own age.
Kun – Male suffix, same uses as 'chan'.
Senpai – Used to refer to a senior co-worker.
Sensei/Kyoshi – Anyone who has more knowledge and experience than you, especially a teacher. Kyoshi is a less formal version of sensei.
Ka – Used for someone who is an expert in their field, like a manga artist (mangaka)
Iemoto – Even more formal version of 'ka', only really used in the formal arts like calligraphy.
Baka/Yarou – When used as a suffix, it means 'moron'. Yarou is a ruder version.
So, I'd want to refer to another, more experienced sub as 'senpai', an equal to me as 'san', a superior as 'sama', a junior or a close friend as 'chan' or 'kun'.
Someone who was teaching me in a general sense might be 'sensei' or 'kyoshi', or 'ka' if they were an expert, like maybe at a rope demo. Someone I was being instructed by in ritual D/s, I'd want to call 'iemoto' or 'ue'.
Someone I was with in a submissive role might be 'sama' or 'dono' depending on the depth and intensity of the submission. Casual play would probably be 'sama' (not that I ever do that!).
Were I to have a sub, I'd refer to them as 'kun', unless I wanted to humiliate them, in which case it would be 'yarou', which is probably closest to 'asshole'. I'd want them to refer to me as kitten-kyou at all times.
The most important thing to remember is that you never bestow an honorific upon yourself. This is very rude. If someone uses an honorific you perceive as rude, you may question it but you must not ever refer to yourself with any kind of suffix.
If we had a similar system in a D/s setting where there were lots of people, maybe like a themed chatroom, it would mean that everyone would be able to express their place very accurately by reference to the way they refer to others. In addition, No-one would ever be able to award themselves a top (or bottom) position. A person's position would be defined by the respect, affection, care and responsibility conferred on them by others.
I think that would be quite fun. Protocol is one of those things that varies so much between places and individuals that it is difficult to know how to talk to anyone in a D/s group setting - the Japanese system of honorifics seems ready-made for people like us.
| 30 May 07, 1:14 PM purple_Raven UK(IP), 5 yrs  |
What a cool way of looking at verying protocols 
I love the japanese culture and speach and have learnt something from your blog Ummmmm how would I say that properly in japanese, please. Keep safe and stay happy. Purple_Raven ~X~ One 1/2 of Purple_Pen_Duo
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My heart sings....... can you hear it?? Edited 30 May 07, 1:15 PM by purple_Raven | |
| 30 May 07, 1:55 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs       |
I am actually very intrigued by this idea - and happy to use the japanese terms on the basis of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... However, I can see it would take a lot of thought on everyone's behalf to make any sort of success of this system. Would, however, love to give it a try. BeLuS | |
| 30 May 07, 4:01 PM Bubbles_2 UK(E), 6 yrs |
We don't necesarily verbalise it but in this country i believe we have an as sophisticated yet more subtle as it is unverbalised system of knowing pretty soon on meeting people whether in the straight or BDSM world what their status is, both generally and in relation to each other.. Club Subversion Crossing the Rubicon bobette's MySpace Unfettered | |
| 30 May 07, 4:19 PM Master_Darkman 6 yrs |
This site may be of interest to you then. http://www.ds-arts.com/GeishaArt/index.html The companion site for the Dominant as Samurai has many ideas I found myself agreeing with. http://ds-arts.com/Bushido/index.html Pain is just weakness leaving the body Edited 30 May 07, 6:21 PM by Master_Darkman | |
| 30 May 07, 4:28 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs |
The problem is that, if it remains unverbalised it becomes self-referential: you know what you think of someone, but you are not providing either the subject of your thoughts, or those in your (or their) network, with any clear idea of how you regard them. Also, to discover how members of a network each differently regard eachother would be interesting too. Of course none of this would work without courtesy and dignity being paramount. Finally, this deose not permit masters or mistrsesses to confer that status upon themselves - status comes from how others perceive you, not from how you perceive yourself: healthy methinks! Edited 30 May 07, 4:40 PM by Belasarius | |
| 30 May 07, 5:36 PM verte UK(E), 8 yrs |
Thank you so much for posting this. It's Kanji, right? T and I have been struggling to come up with something less gendered than 'sir' I can call him affectionately when in high protocol, as neither of us are very comfortable with it. Perhaps we need to turn our attentions east... | |
| 30 May 07, 7:47 PM Deviant_Bitch UK(G), 6 yrs |
Glad to see I am not the only person who loves eastern cultures and the language. I used to be able to speak a few phrases but unfortunately not now. Wii's are like buses you wait months for one and then two come along. | |
| 31 May 07, 7:52 AM verte UK(E), 8 yrs |
Oh dear, I really should have known that. My friend's been learning Kanji for over a year! | |
| 3 Jun 07, 1:51 AM MistressNikki UK(SE), 9 yrs |
Is there a specific suffix for Student? and for Child? I would guess a Teacher would not use -San for their pupils...? On-going Special on Hugs... | |
| 7 Jun 07, 3:39 PM Doghouse_Reilly UK(MK), 6 yrs |
So what has higher status, a ninja or a robot? The Dude abides. |
So thank you
