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Puppy play gone wrong... (78)

This post is on the BDSM Activism web board.

webmonkey wrote:
This whole thread is very depressing.

For some reason I had a belief that the BDSM community was more enlightened than this.

Last time I looked, 1 in 5 women had experienced rape.

I don't mean 'date-rape' or 'border-line-rape', but that particular act of violence where the woman has clearly not given any kind of consent in any shape or form.

Its not just statistics either, of the 5 or so women I know well enough to talk about such things, 3 have been raped. They didn't report it to the police either.

If you think the lack of reporting is telling, I know a man who was raped too - he didn't tell anyone for 30 years.

There may be cases where the perpetrator didn't realise that they were doing anything wrong, but if you punch someone, and they fall, hit their head and later die of their injuries, no-one will be surprised if you're charged with murder or manslaughter - even if they 'asked for it' by being insulting or lippy.

Truelly appalling.

Agreed. I find it rather frightening that certain factions (male and female) find ways of *excusing* rape. Within the BDSM community everything is supposed to be either SSC or RACK. With the emphasis on C - Consent. to find the community supporting, excusing or even endorsing non-consentual acts is very worrying indeed. And using semantics or legalese to blur the lines is simply another form of justification.

Red
www.fallenangeldesign.co.uk
Happily ensconced with my true Master

4 Apr 07, 1:33 PM
foibey
UK(M), 7 yrs

MKane, Catherine "pornography is hate speech against women" Mackinnon is hardly a definitive speaker on feminism. She's a important part of the feminist movement to take note of, but hardly representative of the feminist movement as a whole, particulaarly when you're talking to SM-supportive feminists.

Using her in this discussion is just straw-manning.

moo

Edited 4 Apr 07, 1:36 PM by foibey

4 Apr 07, 1:33 PM
Backdooruk
UK(BA), 12 yrs

MKane wrote:
Reminds me of situations when a man meets a woman and has consensual sex and then next thing he's arrested for rape, just cos the woman gets pissed off that he didn't send flowers next morning.

Does that happen to you a lot?

- Chris

"I have made this letter longer, because I have not had the time to make it shorter." - Blaise Pascal

4 Apr 07, 1:36 PM
MKane
9 yrs

redred wrote:
I find it rather frightening that certain factions (male and female) find ways of *excusing* rape. Within the BDSM community everything is supposed to be either SSC or RACK. With the emphasis on C - Consent. to find the community supporting, excusing or even endorsing non-consentual acts is very worrying indeed. And using semantics or legalese to blur the lines is simply another form of justification.

What a crock of shit. Nobody is excusing, supporting, or endorsing, rape or non-consensual acts. My point was all about the ease of making false accusations, and I'm frankly disgusted at how some people are so blinded by their own rhetoric and rage, and have turned it into trying to imply that false rape accusations never happen and anyone who says they do is no better than a rapist.

You need to take a deep breath and keep it in perspective.

--------------------------------------------------- -
"Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose" Helen Keller (1880-1968)

4 Apr 07, 1:39 PM
Crystal_Eyes
UK, 5 yrs

Manniq wrote:

Crystal_Eyes wrote:
Add to that the statistics (as, as you rightly point out, getting a successful conviction is extrememly difficult), & i think you'll find the withdrawal of accusations is more to do with the victim weighing up the trauma against the likelihood of getting a conviction, & deciding it isn't worth it.

The problem of "getting a conviction" has to do with the relationship between the facts as reported and the law. It is an asymmetric relationship.

The difficulty is that if they consent to having sex but claim it was consensual, it is impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this wasn't the case.

Hence, why report something that you're fairly sure won't even make it into the court-room? I genuinely believe that this is why statements are withdrawn, not because (as you insinuated in the initial post i responded to) because the allegation was false in the first place.

~ = ~ = ~ = xcLx = ~ = ~ = ~
"Oh bother," said the borg. "We've assimilated Pooh..."
- HomePage - Journal - WTF?! -

Edited 4 Apr 07, 1:40 PM by Crystal_Eyes

4 Apr 07, 1:40 PM
mini_velvet
UK(EH), 6 yrs

It has always struck me as rather depressing that if you are murdered or robbed no-one says you were *asking for it*.

Male victims of rape don't get told they were asking for it.

Yet if you are a woman your dress, sexual history, behaviour, and entire character is questioned and scrutinised.

The victim questions and doubts herself enough without others adding to it.

The agenda of certain posters in this thread is loud and clear.

There are worse things to eat on a train than a British Rail sandwich.
La Douleur Exquise
last of the international slut girls
Life is like the Tango... sad, sensual, sexy, violent and quiet.

4 Apr 07, 1:47 PM
MKane
9 yrs

Some interesting statistics.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?...

Politically correct feminists claim false rape accusations are rare and account for only 2 percent of all reports. Men's rights sites point to research that places the rate as high as 41 percent. These are wildly disparate figures that cannot be reconciled.

The rate of false reports is roughly between 20 (if DNA excludes an accused) to 40 percent (if inconclusive DNA is added). The relatively low estimate of 25 to 26 percent is probably accurate, especially since it is supported by other sources.

False accusations are not rare. They are common.

4 Apr 07, 1:49 PM
mini_velvet
UK(EH), 6 yrs

Manniq wrote:

Manniq you come to this debate being very factual and stoic about the legal points.

That is good and a valid stance, but you might do well to remember that for many people this is a very emotive subject.

You attempting to shoehorn your legal knowledge and uber intelligence in doesn't always help.

Life is not as matter of fact as law and regulations.

When someone posts in what comes across as a smug, superior, pompous manner it can be very difficult for others to respond, and I'm sure stifling the debate isn't what you desire.

I know you're a Dom but you don't always have to be right

There are worse things to eat on a train than a British Rail sandwich.
La Douleur Exquise
last of the international slut girls
Life is like the Tango... sad, sensual, sexy, violent and quiet.

4 Apr 07, 1:50 PM
Backdooruk
UK(BA), 12 yrs

MKane wrote:
Some interesting statistics.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?...

False accusations are not rare. They are common.

The problem with this (apart from it's source ) is that it's complete bollocks. As Maniq already mentioned in the thread in the vast majority of rapes penetration is not contested so DNA evidence isn't even used. But I suspect someone on that site is mathematically challenged.

- Chris

"I have made this letter longer, because I have not had the time to make it shorter." - Blaise Pascal

Edited 4 Apr 07, 1:51 PM by Backdooruk

4 Apr 07, 1:50 PM
x_Red_x
6 yrs

MKane wrote:

You need to take a deep breath and keep it in perspective.

Funny, that seems to be what people have suggested about you. Given your continued stance of if a girl is drunk it shouldn't be rape and other similar suggestions, and given the number of rape cases that are dropped by the victim because the process of going through the prosecution simply overwhelms and distresses them you fly in the face of facts continually. To listen to you is to believe that the MAJORITY of rape cases are unsubstantiated. The MAJORITY of rape cases are false acusations.

Red
www.fallenangeldesign.co.uk
Happily ensconced with my true Master

Edited 4 Apr 07, 1:59 PM by x_Red_x

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